Submitted by Johnny Ringo on Fri, 2008/06/27 - 4:49pm.
If we judge them by what they write, the posters at the KNS website, with a (very) few exceptions, are wretched, awful people. I'd feel sorry for them if they weren't so overtly malicious.
Submitted by Dwight Van de Vate on Sat, 2008/06/28 - 7:04am.
These are a few points Susanne Dupes and I made to Hayes Hickman and Rebecca Ferrar regarding this matter.
<< We just wanted to clarify some points about the timeline.
1. What Commissioner Pinkston asked Alison Wagley in the budget hearing on June 18th was if she was still a Knox County employee. She was then, she is now, and she will be a Knox County employee until July 21st.
2. Alison did not accept a formal offer of employment from UT-Battelle until well after the budget hearing.
3. As you know, she did not offer a formal letter of resignation until yesterday, June 26th. Also, the budget discussions were about funding for the Office of Neighborhoods and not about individual employees, although some Commissioners tried to make proposed budget cuts personal. As you know, the Mayor's Office strongly believes that the Office of Neighborhoods is an important part of making Knox County government accessible and responsive to the public, regardless of who staffs it. >>
It is the prerogative of all county employees to pursue other professional opportunities. Until they have received a formal offer and they accept that offer, it's nobody else's business, including the County Commission.
Dwight Van de Vate
Chief Administrative Officer
Knox County Mayor's Office
Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Sat, 2008/06/28 - 8:52pm.
"Also, the budget discussions were about funding for the Office of Neighborhoods and not about individual employees, although some Commissioners tried to make proposed budget cuts personal."
I certainly see it that way, Dwight. The decision commissioners had to make was whether or not that department delivered a necessary service.
With no offense intended to Ms. Wagley, who did or didn't work in that department really shouldn't have been a factor in commissioners' decision making in the first place.
I didn't watch--Did they ask about anticipated employee turnover in any other offices?
Submitted by Bbeanster on Sat, 2008/06/28 - 10:26pm.
No, they didn't ask about anticipated employee turnover in other offices, but they probably would have zeroed in on anybody who was the focus of as many rumors as Wagley.
I don't know if you're playing naive, Tamara, or if you are the last remaining person in Knox County who hasn't heard this stuff.
But what has become apparent to me is that I shouldn't have wasted my breath or my credibility defending the indefensible.
Submitted by Tamara Shepherd on Sun, 2008/06/29 - 6:28am.
"I don't know if you're playing naive, Tamara, or if you are the last remaining person in Knox County who hasn't heard this stuff."
What I'm saying, Betty, is that rumors about a given employee, substantiated or not, shouldn't be the basis for deciding if a particular county service is needed.
Bruce Wuethrich is taking some heat in recent months. Should we abolish the office of Engineering & Public Works? Doug Bataille has been the subject of rumors for years in his department of Parks & Rec, but should that department also be abolished because of it? All the fee officers are recently under scrutiny, due to alleged practices in their respective departments, but does that necessarily mean we can do without those departments?
It seems to me that if a rumor relating to a given employee's effectiveness in his or her position is substantiated, that is a rationale for eliminating that employee, but not for eliminating the service delivered by that employee's entire department.
Submitted by Bbeanster on Sun, 2008/06/29 - 8:02am.
There is a difference between taking "some heat" and what is going on here -- and evidently you aren't as embarrassed as I think you should be over your near-reflexive defense of all things Ragsdale over the past year or two (e.g. Cynthia Finch).
In the first place, Wagley's job title as director of the Office of Neighborhoods appears to have been bogus -- unless her neighborhood included downtown Nashville. She was a lobbyist for the Ragsdale administration, and since the county was already paying two professional lobbyists, dropping the pretense and classifying her accurately would have opened Ragsdale up to even more 'heat" and raised questions about the amount of money being spent on that function. The $300-plus dinner and drinks at the Palm with Ragsdale probably didn't do anything to soothe those suspicions, and although the Ragsdale administration attempts to explain these expenses as legitimate and necessary, it really doesn't pass the smell test.
Grant Rosenberg ran the Office of Neighborhoods. Still does. And in a lean fiscal year like this, commissioners were absolutely within their rights to try to find out what Wagley's job actually was. While I do not think county employees should be required to announce that they are looking for other jobs, it does appear that Wagley was -- at the very least -- evasive and weasly when she was asked about her future with Knox County.
I went to bat for Wagley a few months ago - fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice? Nah.
Mr. Van de Vate from all that I have heard you are a fine, upstanding individual. If you would resign you would send a strong message to Knox County i.e. "I'm tired of trying to defend those actions to which there is no defense". Don't be a Scott McClellan.
Submitted by Toad In The Hole (not verified) on Sat, 2008/06/28 - 12:22pm.
to his job that he cannot be effective in any longer and rather than get out of the way, turn the role over to somebody with credibility and trust of the community, he's like a kids in the sandbox who is trying to hang on to all of the sand, trying to stay relevant in a situation is only made worse by his continued presence.
We're losing decent private sector jobs left and right in this community right now, while the other communities, particularly Blount County have done a much better job of diversifying their local economy, while in Knox County everybody either works for the local government or works for a not for profit.
Submitted by Sandra Clark on Sun, 2008/06/29 - 10:15am.
Knox County existed w/o an Office of Neighborhoods for 200 years. County Commission should have eliminated it from the budget.
Where was Lumpy, one might ask, in this year's budget debate? Word on the street is he sold out his independent spirit for a few buck to the film commission -- where somebody gave him a starring role.
Note from management. Number 9 just had a comment that raised interesting questions, but he crossed the line with the last sentence so it had to be removed. Too bad. I don't generally have time to edit comments. If people like Number 9 want a forum, they should stick to the facts and the legitimate questions and leave out the gossip and innuendo.
Submitted by Anonymously Nine (not verified) on Mon, 2008/06/30 - 3:11pm.
Commissioner Daniels, have Larry Frank, Hugh Holt, or Bruce Wuethrich appear before County Commission and ask them if Mayor Ragsdale has committed conduct that borders on “harassment or possibly even official oppression." Require these department heads to appear before a special call meeting of Commission and request that the Law Director swear them in under oath.
It is known in the court house crowd that County Mayor Ragsdale has threatened to fire any department head who tells the truth about the budget. That truth is that Ragsdale has threatened to fire several department heads if they tell the truth. People have been threatened with their jobs to keep silent.
Van de Vate crossed the line today and has libeled Commissioner Daniels. The Chief Administrative Officer of Knox County has made it clear that anyone who tries to find the truth about the Wagley incident will be treated with extreme prejudice. The search for the truth is not “harassment or possibly even official oppression”. It is simply the search for the truth.
Submitted by rocketsquirrel on Mon, 2008/06/30 - 3:23pm.
this just in from the humor department...
counting Wagley heading to UT Battelle from her embattled position in Knox County government, and this story from Y-12 today, that's two bombs dropped on Oak Ridge in a week.
Submitted by Factchecker on Mon, 2008/06/30 - 8:59pm.
Knox County existed w/o an Office of Neighborhoods for 200 years. County Commission should have eliminated it from the budget.
I disagree. In this era of developers squeezing the citizens to death, and things like the practical extinction of tort (thanks, GOP!), we need this office. It just needs to do what the name implies instead of being window dressing for the mayor.
I've spoken with Mr. Rosenberg recently and got a strong favorable impression that the Office of Neighborhoods may change for the better. Let's give him a chance.
It's "others" who need to be drummed out of our county government.
Submitted by stingo (not verified) on Tue, 2008/07/01 - 6:42am.
The office of neighborhoods should be kept with Mr.Rosenberg running it.Further,it should do what it was supposed to do and not serve as a repository for someone who did not know what the job was,had no clue of what the budget was.If Mr.Ragsdale needed another lobbyist on the payroll,he should have done so,or tried.I feel that Ms.Wagley was a lobbyist among other things but was slipped in the Neighborhoods Office to hide her outrageous salary from public view.
Submitted by Factchecker on Tue, 2008/07/01 - 11:32am.
I'm genuinely curious - what do you mean by this?
The GOP hasn't done anything to water down tort laws in the last 25 years? That was one of the constant mantras from the likes of Dick Armey, Lott, Gingrich, DeLay, McConnell, Phil Gramm, et. al. before other more pressing political matters arose (their reign against "terrur" and elitists). To hear it from them, it was one of their noblest causes.
For the problem my neighborhood is having, I have done a little light laymen's reading on tort (OK, Wikipedia), and that topic squarely covers our issue. However, I'm almost sure we would get laughed out of a modern bid'ness capitalist friendly courtroom, even if we could muster the legal fees.
Submitted by Johnny Ringo on Tue, 2008/07/01 - 2:33pm.
OK, so what you mean to say is "I don't really know anything about tort law, but because Rethugs are for tort reform, I can assume that tort law is extinct." Gotcha.
With tort law in AmeriKKKa now extinct, I wonder where all those poor hungry lawyers who are funding the Obama campaign get all that money?
As in other recent campaigns, lawyers account for the biggest chunk of Democratic donations. They have donated about $18 million to Obama, compared with about $5 million to John McCain, according to data released on June 2 and available at OpenSecrets.org.
Submitted by Factchecker on Tue, 2008/07/01 - 3:58pm.
And you're using political elitist Bobo as your reference!? Mr. Obama-is-elitist-because-he-would-be-out-of-place-at-an-Applebee's-salad-bar (that's nonexistant because Applebee's doesn't even have a friggin' salad bar)? How quaint!
Tort "reform" is code for tort elimination. We all know it. Are you just saying that tort litigation is alive and well because the GOP failed on its promises (again)? And are all lawyers employed from tort, or just Democratic lawyers? Hell, aren't you a lawyer? Of course, who am I to question such an expert topic of yours?
I'm not a fancy lawyer or anything, so what do I know? I'm just a meager engineer trying to make sense of things in this world with the simple gifts that I have. Sorry to have an opinion.
This is sort of a classic example of a hijacked thread. Could you guys start a new one with a more appropriate title? I keep coming here to read about Knox County Office of Neighborhoods.
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 2008/07/01 - 6:04pm.
We don't need tort reform we need a loser pay systems. You sue me and lose you pay my legal fees. This would stop all the frivolous lawsuits. Make attorneys file bond equal to the estimated cost to defend and when they lose pay the other sides legal fees. If your case has merit, you win and the bond is released.
Submitted by redmondkr on Wed, 2008/07/02 - 8:41am.
I don't know what this has to do with the Office of Neighborhoods director but I did enjoy watching Trent "Tort Reform" Lott telling the Senate that there would be hell to pay during his recent unpleasant experience with State Farm.
Wonder what's the significance of the July 21 quit date?
Probably accrued vacation and comp time, I'd say, but hey. Who's counting? -- s.
Ugh. Reading the KNS story about this reminds me why I don't read comments over there.
If we judge them by what they write, the posters at the KNS website, with a (very) few exceptions, are wretched, awful people. I'd feel sorry for them if they weren't so overtly malicious.
I bet most of them work for county government!
These are a few points Susanne Dupes and I made to Hayes Hickman and Rebecca Ferrar regarding this matter.
<< We just wanted to clarify some points about the timeline.
1. What Commissioner Pinkston asked Alison Wagley in the budget hearing on June 18th was if she was still a Knox County employee. She was then, she is now, and she will be a Knox County employee until July 21st.
2. Alison did not accept a formal offer of employment from UT-Battelle until well after the budget hearing.
3. As you know, she did not offer a formal letter of resignation until yesterday, June 26th. Also, the budget discussions were about funding for the Office of Neighborhoods and not about individual employees, although some Commissioners tried to make proposed budget cuts personal. As you know, the Mayor's Office strongly believes that the Office of Neighborhoods is an important part of making Knox County government accessible and responsive to the public, regardless of who staffs it. >>
It is the prerogative of all county employees to pursue other professional opportunities. Until they have received a formal offer and they accept that offer, it's nobody else's business, including the County Commission.
Dwight Van de Vate
Chief Administrative Officer
Knox County Mayor's Office
"Also, the budget discussions were about funding for the Office of Neighborhoods and not about individual employees, although some Commissioners tried to make proposed budget cuts personal."
I certainly see it that way, Dwight. The decision commissioners had to make was whether or not that department delivered a necessary service.
With no offense intended to Ms. Wagley, who did or didn't work in that department really shouldn't have been a factor in commissioners' decision making in the first place.
I didn't watch--Did they ask about anticipated employee turnover in any other offices?
No, they didn't ask about anticipated employee turnover in other offices, but they probably would have zeroed in on anybody who was the focus of as many rumors as Wagley.
I don't know if you're playing naive, Tamara, or if you are the last remaining person in Knox County who hasn't heard this stuff.
But what has become apparent to me is that I shouldn't have wasted my breath or my credibility defending the indefensible.
"I don't know if you're playing naive, Tamara, or if you are the last remaining person in Knox County who hasn't heard this stuff."
What I'm saying, Betty, is that rumors about a given employee, substantiated or not, shouldn't be the basis for deciding if a particular county service is needed.
Bruce Wuethrich is taking some heat in recent months. Should we abolish the office of Engineering & Public Works? Doug Bataille has been the subject of rumors for years in his department of Parks & Rec, but should that department also be abolished because of it? All the fee officers are recently under scrutiny, due to alleged practices in their respective departments, but does that necessarily mean we can do without those departments?
It seems to me that if a rumor relating to a given employee's effectiveness in his or her position is substantiated, that is a rationale for eliminating that employee, but not for eliminating the service delivered by that employee's entire department.
There is a difference between taking "some heat" and what is going on here -- and evidently you aren't as embarrassed as I think you should be over your near-reflexive defense of all things Ragsdale over the past year or two (e.g. Cynthia Finch).
In the first place, Wagley's job title as director of the Office of Neighborhoods appears to have been bogus -- unless her neighborhood included downtown Nashville. She was a lobbyist for the Ragsdale administration, and since the county was already paying two professional lobbyists, dropping the pretense and classifying her accurately would have opened Ragsdale up to even more 'heat" and raised questions about the amount of money being spent on that function. The $300-plus dinner and drinks at the Palm with Ragsdale probably didn't do anything to soothe those suspicions, and although the Ragsdale administration attempts to explain these expenses as legitimate and necessary, it really doesn't pass the smell test.
Grant Rosenberg ran the Office of Neighborhoods. Still does. And in a lean fiscal year like this, commissioners were absolutely within their rights to try to find out what Wagley's job actually was. While I do not think county employees should be required to announce that they are looking for other jobs, it does appear that Wagley was -- at the very least -- evasive and weasly when she was asked about her future with Knox County.
I went to bat for Wagley a few months ago - fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice? Nah.
Bbeanster
You are right on. I hope you do not loose sleep tonight because a developer agrees with you.
"And in a lean fiscal year like this, commissioners were absolutely within their rights to try to find out what Wagley's job actually was."
This concern seems reasonable. Did commissioners' line of questioning center on getting it answered?
Tamara, you are the ultimate dead ender.
What do these people have to do?
Reminds me of what the definition of is is.
Mr. Van de Vate from all that I have heard you are a fine, upstanding individual. If you would resign you would send a strong message to Knox County i.e. "I'm tired of trying to defend those actions to which there is no defense". Don't be a Scott McClellan.
Knox County is the land of "is".
to his job that he cannot be effective in any longer and rather than get out of the way, turn the role over to somebody with credibility and trust of the community, he's like a kids in the sandbox who is trying to hang on to all of the sand, trying to stay relevant in a situation is only made worse by his continued presence.
We're losing decent private sector jobs left and right in this community right now, while the other communities, particularly Blount County have done a much better job of diversifying their local economy, while in Knox County everybody either works for the local government or works for a not for profit.
It is real easy for Blount County to secure new job when Ragsdale is giving them $5,000,000 of our money for their economic development!
Dwight I used to think of you as honorable, but not anymore, how do you sleep at night?
Mr. Van de Vate must be very tired. He has the hardest job in Knox County.
Knox County existed w/o an Office of Neighborhoods for 200 years. County Commission should have eliminated it from the budget.
Where was Lumpy, one might ask, in this year's budget debate? Word on the street is he sold out his independent spirit for a few buck to the film commission -- where somebody gave him a starring role.
Say it ain't so, Lumpster! -- s.
Note from management. Number 9 just had a comment that raised interesting questions, but he crossed the line with the last sentence so it had to be removed. Too bad. I don't generally have time to edit comments. If people like Number 9 want a forum, they should stick to the facts and the legitimate questions and leave out the gossip and innuendo.
Commissioner Daniels, have Larry Frank, Hugh Holt, or Bruce Wuethrich appear before County Commission and ask them if Mayor Ragsdale has committed conduct that borders on “harassment or possibly even official oppression." Require these department heads to appear before a special call meeting of Commission and request that the Law Director swear them in under oath.
It is known in the court house crowd that County Mayor Ragsdale has threatened to fire any department head who tells the truth about the budget. That truth is that Ragsdale has threatened to fire several department heads if they tell the truth. People have been threatened with their jobs to keep silent.
Van de Vate crossed the line today and has libeled Commissioner Daniels. The Chief Administrative Officer of Knox County has made it clear that anyone who tries to find the truth about the Wagley incident will be treated with extreme prejudice. The search for the truth is not “harassment or possibly even official oppression”. It is simply the search for the truth.
this just in from the humor department...
counting Wagley heading to UT Battelle from her embattled position in Knox County government, and this story from Y-12 today, that's two bombs dropped on Oak Ridge in a week.
now back to your regular programming.
I disagree. In this era of developers squeezing the citizens to death, and things like the practical extinction of tort (thanks, GOP!), we need this office. It just needs to do what the name implies instead of being window dressing for the mayor.
I've spoken with Mr. Rosenberg recently and got a strong favorable impression that the Office of Neighborhoods may change for the better. Let's give him a chance.
It's "others" who need to be drummed out of our county government.
The office of neighborhoods should be kept with Mr.Rosenberg running it.Further,it should do what it was supposed to do and not serve as a repository for someone who did not know what the job was,had no clue of what the budget was.If Mr.Ragsdale needed another lobbyist on the payroll,he should have done so,or tried.I feel that Ms.Wagley was a lobbyist among other things but was slipped in the Neighborhoods Office to hide her outrageous salary from public view.
and things like the practical extinction of tort (thanks, GOP!),
I'm genuinely curious - what do you mean by this?
The GOP hasn't done anything to water down tort laws in the last 25 years? That was one of the constant mantras from the likes of Dick Armey, Lott, Gingrich, DeLay, McConnell, Phil Gramm, et. al. before other more pressing political matters arose (their reign against "terrur" and elitists). To hear it from them, it was one of their noblest causes.
For the problem my neighborhood is having, I have done a little light laymen's reading on tort (OK, Wikipedia), and that topic squarely covers our issue. However, I'm almost sure we would get laughed out of a modern
bid'nesscapitalist friendly courtroom, even if we could muster the legal fees.OK, so what you mean to say is "I don't really know anything about tort law, but because Rethugs are for tort reform, I can assume that tort law is extinct." Gotcha.
With tort law in AmeriKKKa now extinct, I wonder where all those poor hungry lawyers who are funding the Obama campaign get all that money?
As in other recent campaigns, lawyers account for the biggest chunk of Democratic donations. They have donated about $18 million to Obama, compared with about $5 million to John McCain, according to data released on June 2 and available at OpenSecrets.org.
And you're using political elitist Bobo as your reference!? Mr. Obama-is-elitist-because-he-would-be-out-of-place-at-an-Applebee's-salad-bar (that's nonexistant because Applebee's doesn't even have a friggin' salad bar)? How quaint!
Tort "reform" is code for tort elimination. We all know it. Are you just saying that tort litigation is alive and well because the GOP failed on its promises (again)? And are all lawyers employed from tort, or just Democratic lawyers? Hell, aren't you a lawyer? Of course, who am I to question such an expert topic of yours?
I'm not a fancy lawyer or anything, so what do I know? I'm just a meager engineer trying to make sense of things in this world with the simple gifts that I have. Sorry to have an opinion.
Tort "reform" is code for tort elimination.
No it isn't, any more than energy policy reform is about eliminating energy. But believe what you want.
Are you just saying that tort litigation is alive and well because the GOP failed on its promises (again)?
Yep.
Having said that, I agree this is becoming a hijacked thread, for which I apologise, so I'm done.
This is sort of a classic example of a hijacked thread. Could you guys start a new one with a more appropriate title? I keep coming here to read about Knox County Office of Neighborhoods.
We don't need tort reform we need a loser pay systems. You sue me and lose you pay my legal fees. This would stop all the frivolous lawsuits. Make attorneys file bond equal to the estimated cost to defend and when they lose pay the other sides legal fees. If your case has merit, you win and the bond is released.
I don't know what this has to do with the Office of Neighborhoods director but I did enjoy watching Trent "Tort Reform" Lott telling the Senate that there would be hell to pay during his recent unpleasant experience with State Farm.
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